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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:56:59 +0200
From: [unknown]
To: PML <phylocode@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the Paris meeting
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_TXGXuP9UqujIIvMR9hvLJA)
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----- Original Message -----
From: Redhead, Scott=3D20
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:06 PM
[...] it bewilders me as to how anatomical characters are objective=
ly =3D
scored
To be honest, often they aren't. People now try to quantify more, but=
=3D
you can still find wordings like "well developed" or "reduced" in =
=3D
character lists.
During one coffee break a contributor optimistically stated that =
=3D
within 10 years everybody in biology would be adopting the Phylocode,=
=3D
but I think that is naive, and unrealistic given the lack of interest=
in =3D
the code by major groups of biologists.
I think much, if not most of this is not a lack of interest but a lac=
k =3D
of information.
The debate on incorporating species into the code took a worrying =
=3D
direction by the shift towards using current species epithets (stripp=
ed =3D
of generic names) but leaving attached authors' names, year and page =
(or =3D
reference) if necessary. One of the burden's of the current codes (IC=
BN, =3D
ICZN, ICNB) is the author citations, particularly for the botanical c=
ode =3D
that involves authors of new combinations being added on. Adding =
=3D
authors' names on taxon names always introduces the ego factor (no =
=3D
matter how noble one might believe themselves to be). The historic co=
des =3D
in part did this to help track names through literature. Such is =
=3D
unnecessary when every single name in this code is in a database. =
=3D
Authorship is irrelevant and can be eliminated because each has a uni=
que =3D
registration number. There is the grand opportunity to rise above =
=3D
everyone's collective egos (but of course nobody wanted to do this). =
=3D
Suggesting now that authors names (year of publication or validation)=
=3D
become part of species names actually goes several steps further in a=
n =3D
illogical direction.
This is an interesting argument. All I can say in the support of auth=
or =3D
& year is that the latter is easier to remember than a registration =
=3D
number... and with the end of genera, some such distinguishing factor=
=3D
may become more important... or actually not, because currently autho=
rs =3D
& years seem to be cited most commonly in synonymy lists and the like=
... =3D
this certainly deserves more discussion!
Ottawa, Ontario/Ottawa (Ontario)
Is this a difference between English and French? :^)
--Boundary_(ID_TXGXuP9UqujIIvMR9hvLJA)
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20
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=3D
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV=
>
<DIV=3D20
style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =3D
black"><B>From:</B>=3D20
<A title=3D3DREDHEADS@AGR.GC.CA =3D
href=3D3D"mailto:REDHEADS@AGR.GC.CA">Redhead,=3D20
Scott</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 13=
, =3D
2004 8:06=3D20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV class=3D3DSection1>
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-SIZE:=
=3D
12pt">[...] it=3D20
bewilders me as to how anatomical characters are objectively=3D20
scored</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal dir=3D3Dltr><FONT size=3D3D2><SPAN style=3D3D"=
FONT-SIZE: =3D
12pt">To be=3D20
honest, often they aren't. People now try to quantify more, but you c=
an =3D
still=3D20
find wordings like "well developed" or "reduced" in character=3D20
lists.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20
style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-SIZE:=
=3D
12pt">During one=3D20
coffee break a contributor optimistically stated that within 10 yea=
rs=3D20
everybody in biology would be adopting the Phylocode, but I think t=
hat =3D
is=3D20
naive, and unrealistic given the lack of interest in the code by ma=
jor =3D
groups=3D20
of biologists.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal dir=3D3Dltr><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN style=3D3D"=
FONT-SIZE: =3D
12pt">I think=3D20
much, if not most of this is not a lack of interest but a lack of=
=3D20
information.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20
style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-SIZE:=
=3D
12pt">The debate on=3D20
incorporating species into the code took a worrying direction by th=
e =3D
shift=3D20
towards using current species epithets (stripped of generic names) =
but =3D
leaving=3D20
attached authors=3D92 names, year and page (or reference) if necess=
ary. =3D
One of the=3D20
burden=3D92s of the current codes (ICBN, ICZN, ICNB) is the author =
=3D
citations,=3D20
particularly for the botanical code that involves authors of new =
=3D
combinations=3D20
being added on. Adding authors=3D92 names on taxon names always =
=3D
introduces the ego=3D20
factor (no matter how noble one might believe themselves to be). Th=
e =3D
historic=3D20
codes in part did this to help track names through literature. Such=
is =3D
unnecessary when every single name in this code is in a database. =
=3D
Authorship=3D20
is irrelevant and can be eliminated because each has a unique =3D
registration=3D20
number. There is the grand opportunity to rise above everyone=3D92s=
=3D
collective=3D20
egos (but of course nobody wanted to do this). Suggesting now=
=3D
that=3D20
authors names (year of publication or validation) become part of =
=3D
species names=3D20
actually goes several steps further in an illogical=3D20
direction.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal dir=3D3Dltr><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN style=3D3D"=
FONT-SIZE: =3D
12pt">This is an=3D20
interesting argument.</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D3D3><SPAN =3D
style=3D3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=3D20
All I can say in the support of author & year is that the latter =
is =3D
easier=3D20
to remember than a registration number... and with the end of genera,=
=3D
some such=3D20
distinguishing factor may become more important... or actually not, =
=3D
because=3D20
currently authors & years seem to be cited most commonly in synon=
ymy =3D
lists=3D20
and the like... this certainly deserves more =3D
discussion!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3D3Dltr=3D20
style=3D3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
=3D
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3D"Courier New" size=3D3D2><SPA=
N =3D
lang=3D3DFR=3D20
style=3D3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Ottawa, =
=3D
Ontario/Ottawa=3D20
(Ontario)</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal dir=3D3Dltr><FONT face=3D3D"Times New Roman" =
=3D
size=3D3D3>Is this a=3D20
difference between English and French? :^)</FONT></P></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_TXGXuP9UqujIIvMR9hvLJA)--