Message 2001-06-0081: Re: T-J Extinction event article (more media errors?)

Tue, 15 May 2001 15:42:46 -0400 (EDT)

[Previous by date - Re: Fwd: Society for Phylogenetic Nomenclature]
[Next by date - Re: T-J Extinction event article (more media errors?)]
[Previous by subject - Re: T-J Extinction event article (more media errors?)]
[Next by subject - Re: T-J Extinction event article (more media errors?)]

Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:42:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: NJPharris@aol.com
To: tmk@dinosauricon.com, dinosaur@usc.edu
Cc: PhyloCode@ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
Subject: Re: T-J Extinction event article (more media errors?)

--Boundary_(ID_cFZnSgvwp0ez/CtW/f6Oog)
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 5/14/01 7:18:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
tmk@dinosauricon.com writes:


> > Right now, if I want to establish a taxonomic name, all I have to do is
> > publish it in a publication, which is suitably defined under the ICZN. I
> > don't have to "register" it anywhere. Under the PhyloCode, the name would
> > >have< to be "submitted" to the database. That right there strikes me as
> > irksome.
> 
> But less irksome in the long run. It would be far easier to check for
> preoccupied names, to look up particulars on any given name, etc. And
> registration is not a mammoth task, anyway. You go to a webpage and fill
> 

With instant arbitration over whether a name has been properly published or 
not, and an authoritative declaration that the name is now available for 
use--something I should think George would appreciate, given the problems he 
has had in the past getting his names recognized.

What bothers me more is the unamendable definitions PhyloCode would introduce 
(if I understand it correctly).  Say, for instance, I have two genera, A and 
B, and I determine on the basis of current evidence that they are sister 
taxa, so I define each as a stem-based taxon opposed to the other:

Genus A={type of A > type of B}
Genus B={type of B > type of A}

Now say I go out and dig up weird-ass critter C, which, on the basis of 
certain shared characters, I am able to determine is more closely related to 
the type specimen of A than it is to the type of B.  

Under the current system, I can give weird-ass critter C a new generic name, 
to reflect its weird-assedness, and represent its proximity to A on a 
phylogenetic tree.  But if Genus A has already been *defined* as all 
organisms closer to the type of A than to the type of B, and this definition 
cannot be amended, then I am *forced* to place C in genus A, and I feel this 
goes against the spirit of a genus.

Basically, I think the flexibility currently present at the genus level needs 
to be preserved, so perhaps PhyloCode should only apply to suprageneric taxa. 
 What, then, is a genus?  Well, maybe it can just be defined as the first 
part of the binomial.

--Nick P.

--Boundary_(ID_cFZnSgvwp0ez/CtW/f6Oog)
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 5/14/01 7:18:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
<BR>tmk@dinosauricon.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&gt; Right now, if I want to establish a taxonomic name, all I have to do is
<BR>&gt; publish it in a publication, which is suitably defined under the ICZN. I
<BR>&gt; don't have to "register" it anywhere. Under the PhyloCode, the name would
<BR>&gt; &gt;have&lt; to be "submitted" to the database. That right there strikes me as
<BR>&gt; irksome.
<BR>
<BR>But less irksome in the long run. It would be far easier to check for
<BR>preoccupied names, to look up particulars on any given name, etc. And
<BR>registration is not a mammoth task, anyway. You go to a webpage and fill
<BR>out a few forms. It'd take you about 5-15 minutes per taxon</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>With instant arbitration over whether a name has been properly published or 
<BR>not, and an authoritative declaration that the name is now available for 
<BR>use--something I should think George would appreciate, given the problems he 
<BR>has had in the past getting his names recognized.
<BR>
<BR>What bothers me more is the unamendable definitions PhyloCode would introduce 
<BR>(if I understand it correctly). &nbsp;Say, for instance, I have two genera, A and 
<BR>B, and I determine on the basis of current evidence that they are sister 
<BR>taxa, so I define each as a stem-based taxon opposed to the other:
<BR>
<BR>Genus A={type of A &gt; type of B}
<BR>Genus B={type of B &gt; type of A}
<BR>
<BR>Now say I go out and dig up weird-ass critter C, which, on the basis of 
<BR>certain shared characters, I am able to determine is more closely related to 
<BR>the type specimen of A than it is to the type of B. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Under the current system, I can give weird-ass critter C a new generic name, 
<BR>to reflect its weird-assedness, and represent its proximity to A on a 
<BR>phylogenetic tree. &nbsp;But if Genus A has already been *defined* as all 
<BR>organisms closer to the type of A than to the type of B, and this definition 
<BR>cannot be amended, then I am *forced* to place C in genus A, and I feel this 
<BR>goes against the spirit of a genus.
<BR>
<BR>Basically, I think the flexibility currently present at the genus level needs 
<BR>to be preserved, so perhaps PhyloCode should only apply to suprageneric taxa. 
<BR>&nbsp;What, then, is a genus? &nbsp;Well, maybe it can just be defined as the first 
<BR>part of the binomial.
<BR>
<BR>--Nick P.</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_cFZnSgvwp0ez/CtW/f6Oog)--

  

Feedback to <mike@indexdata.com> is welcome!