Message 2001-06-0007: Re: Nomina Conversa

Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:07:23 -0400 (EDT)

[Previous by date - Re: Nomina Conversa]
[Next by date - Re: Nomina Conversa]
[Previous by subject - Re: Nomina Conversa]
[Next by subject - Re: Nomina Conversa]

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:07:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "T. Mike Keesey" <>
To: PhyloCode mailing list <>
Subject: Re: Nomina Conversa

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, David Marjanovic wrote:

> > _Sauropsida_ *is* used for the stem group, and _Reptilia_ for the crown
> > clade. I've never heard of _Eureptilia_ before ... I thought I made it up!
> Michael J. Benton: Vertebrate Palaeontology. Second Edition, Chapman & Hall
> 1997
> has a cladogram on p. 130: (and a similar one on p. 247)
> Amniota
>   |--Synapsida
>   `--Sauropsida
>         |--Mesosauridae
>         `--Eureptilia
>               |--Anapsida
>               |     `--+--Millerettidae
>               |          `--+--Procolophonidae
>               |               `--+--Pareiasauridae
>               |                    `--Testudines
>               `--+--Captorhinidae
>                    `--+--*Paleothyris*
>                         `--Diapsida
> "Cladogram showing the postulated relationships of the major groups of
> amniotes, based on Laurin (1991), Lee (1993, 1995), and Laurin and Reisz
> (1995)."
> I haven't read those papers; the *Eudibamus* paper puts Mesosauridae into
> Anapsida (which becomes Parareptilia if you remove turtles [called
> Testudines here]),

(probably a good idea, since _Chelonia_ is a genus)

> so Synapsida
(err, _Sauropsida_)
> and Eureptilia have the same content, although different definitions,
> at present.

Maybe I did see _Eureptilia_ before... anyway, seems like a preferable
name to me.

>         Putting turtles out of the position shown above, as suggested by
> recent controversial studies, gives strange meanings to a
> crown-group-defined Reptilia. This may end up in Reptilia having the same
> contents as Sauria (another yucky name -- it is neither meant to have its
> traditional paraphyletic meaning "lizards"
Wasn't "Lacertilia" used for that group?
> nor to include all taxa that end in *-saurus*, see

I would much prefer _Sauria_ to _Reptilia_. Birds are already
coelurosaurians, dinosaurians, and archosaurians; why not saurians as

> > Oh yeah ... I wonder where I got those from ... I think "Ostei" would be
> > a much better name, but if these have priority....
> I can't recall to have seen them elsewhere... (It is not sure, however, that
> Teleostomi is useful. It may include any Gnathostomata.)

??? What's the definition of _Teleostomi_? It seems to me it would make
sense as a stem-based clade, perhaps sister to _Chondrichthyes_. I'm a
little ignorant about that part of the tree, though.

> > Although, as you mentioned, there is the alternative Theropsida for
> > _Synapsida_, and there's also Neotheropsida (I think Bakker named it) for
> > _Therapsida_. Tough call....
> Priority? Tossing a coin? :-)
> Theropsida was coined by Huxley in, as Sereno would say, a node-stem triplet
> (Amniota = (Theropsida + Sauropsida)), so it makes good sense,

I think I agree, although I've gotten used to Clade _Synapsida_ by now.

> and Therapsida has a long history of explicitely excluding mammals
> (whereas Dinosauria, Theropoda, Coelurosauria etc. have hardly ever
> explicitely excluded birds),

What do you mean by "explicitly excluding"? I don't think anyone ever
suggested putting birds in Dinosauria (or Theropoda or Coelurosauria)
until the '70's.

> so Neotheropsida is a lot more diplomatic.


> BTW, Amphibia as something like (Lissamphibia [the quite old name for the
> crown clade] > Amniota), to be replaced by suitable species, is IMHO a good
> idea; has this already been proposed?

Yes, according to this page:

Laurin M. 1998a. The importance of global parsimony and historical
          bias in understanding tetrapod evolution.  Part I-systematics,
          middle ear evolution, and jaw suspension. Annales des
          Sciences Naturelles, Zoologie, Paris, 13e Srie 19:

 Home Page               <>
  The Dinosauricon        <>
   personal                <> --> <>
    Dinosauricon-related    <>
     AOL Instant Messenger   <Ric Blayze>
      ICQ                     <77314901>
       Yahoo! Messenger        <Mighty Odinn>


Feedback to <> is welcome!